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 Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.

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Maldeus



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Join date : 2011-04-06

PostSubject: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:09 am

Internet troubles claimed the original version of this post, so here's the short version: Virtually everything in this is being used in this campaign. The Economicon is the important bit. Important notes:

-The Profession rules are completely overhauled and now work more like languages than normal skills. You can only put two ranks into a Profession skill. If you already have more than two, you can redistribute the extra points wherever you like.
-At around 12th level, you enter the Wish economy, gold becomes worthless, and almost everything that costs less than 15,000 GP becomes effectively free. At this stage, popping over to the Elemental Plane of Fire and smacking Efreet around until they give you three wishes is so routine that it's not even worth mentioning in an actual adventure anymore unless you plan to do it so frequently that you draw the attention of even more powerful denizens of the Plane of Fire.
-Outside of trade centers like Sedini, most places can't actually buy any of the stuff you'll be selling.

So, the most important bit of new rules I'll be making up (since no good equivalents are to be found) is dungeon creation. Feel free to dispute these if you think some of them are a bit weird, because most of these numbers were just things that seemed to mostly make sense at 5 AM. Expanding a dungeon requires the services of one architect (10 GP/week) for every fifty laborers you employ (so, for the foreseeable future, you need one). You do not need to hire an architect if you are not actually creating any new space in your dungeon (for example, if you just want to throw some masonry on the dirt walls or have some traps installed, you don't need an architect for that). If you attempt to construct a dungeon without the sufficient number of architects, the dungeon is prone to cave-ins and collapses during or after its construction. At some point I'll probably come up with an exact XdY method of determining when, but until then it's at the mercy of the DM, and you can expect very little mercy from me in that regard. Architects are your friend.

Every laborer you employ can dig out one 5-foot square from dirt every day. If you dig down deep enough that you hit stone, that becomes one 5-foot square every week. Laborers cost only 1 SP/week a piece, but equipping them requires an initial investment of 25 SP (a pick-ax costs 3 GP, a shovel costs 2 GP, your laborers will need both to get the job done but they don't need to have one each, so I took the average of the two costs). This five foot square is intended for medium creatures. Each size category larger increases the total work time by 50% and each category smaller decreases it by the same amount. Your laborers can only dig out areas one size smaller than themselves, but can go larger indefinitely.

If your dungeon is out in the middle of nowhere (like with the Kobolds' ex-lair), the costs go up a lot. Every worker on the project, regardless of his specific job, is going to need a 6 GP initial investment for tents, bedroll, and cooking gear (fortunately, these can all be shared amongst multiple people, or else the cost would be closer to 15 GP). You're also going to need to pay a pair of teamsters for every fifty workers (besides the teamsters themselves) 2 GP/week to have supplies delivered. Because the wilderness is really dangerous, you'll also have to pay one soldier (15 SP/week) for every four other workers of any type except teamsters. If you have fifty or more soldiers, you'll need one officer (5 GP/week) for every fifty soldiers you employ, but frankly if your construction project is big enough that you require fifty or more soldiers, you're probably to the point where 5 GP/week is not an issue.

If, for some reason, you wish to make walls or floors out of iron, the materials for that will cost 10 GP for every 5-foot square. If you're using wood, then it is assumed your laborers can cut down enough wood from nearby forests to serve your needs. One laborer can cut down and chop enough wood for one five foot square every day, and obviously cannot also dig on that day. In order to make a room out of wood, iron, or masonry/flagstone (for walls and floor, respectively), an artisan must spend one full day for every 5-foot square. In order to make reinforced or superior masonry, the artisan must spend three days on every 5-foot square. Artisans require payment of 5 GP/week. Rooms or corridors larger than medium cost 50% more per size category and the reverse is true for smaller size categories, but it makes no difference what size the artisans are, since this kind of construction is precision work and doesn't go faster if you can lift a bigger shovel.

Every month you must pay 25 SP per laborer, 5 GP per artisan, and 5 GP per soldier to replace tools. Alternatively, you can pay one blacksmith (15 GP/week) for every twenty other workers (except teamsters) on your project. Blacksmiths must be paid every week of the month (things break all the time, but they're replaced all at once for simplicity's sake as a mechanical abstraction). You can have blacksmiths repair the equipment for some kinds of worker and not others, which can be useful if your project is in the middle of nowhere and very short, and you'd like to avoid paying the 6 GP cost for camping supplies applied to all workers.

If you bring in workers for one phase of the project and then send them back home for the next (for example, bring in laborers to dig out tunnels and then replace them with artisans to reinforce the walls), you can reuse their tents, bedrolls, cooking utensils, etc. etc. on a 1:1 ratio. Obviously, this only applies if you're in the wilderness and need to supply these things in the first place. Also, the equipment you purchased for your laborers (that 25 SP start-up cost) can be stored in your completed dungeon if you've got room for it and handed out to the new batch of laborers the next time you decide to expand, so you won't have to pay for it again.

One thing you may have noticed through all this is that 300 GP a piece is an absurdly large amount of money, roughly equivalent to about half a year's wage for even the most highly valued mundane workers. This is because, as an adventurer, you are automatically one of the 10% wealthiest people in the world. No one else can afford to kit themselves out for this kind of thing, not to mention getting the ability scores required for adventuring in the first place requires that you be on a diet that is not on the razor's edge of starvation during your developmental years. Except Camlann who, as a Hero of the Peasants, starts out dirt poor and with ability scores suited for adventuring because of Destiny.

The layout of the Kobolds lair is given in exact measurements below. It may help to pull out some graph paper and plot it out yourself. If one dimension is clearly quite longer than another (usually 5xN), the direction of the corridor's length is usually implied.

The Entrance is a large-sized 10x10 room. North of the northwest square there is a medium size tunnel (one 5-foot square) leading to another large-sized 10x10 room (the Pit of Eternal Peril, which on the graph lines up perfectly with the Entrance Room south of it). East of the northeast square of the Pit is a 50x5 foot corridor that connects to the Verde Fiume. West of the northwest square is a tiny-size tunnel that opens up to small-size and extends around the Pit to the corridor leading to the river, a total length of 25x5 (keeping in mind that the first of those 5-foot squares is tiny and not small). Although the squares just north of the Pit of Eternal Peril are adjacent to the squares of the Pit itself, they are not connected.

West of the southwest square of the Entrance Room is Death Row, a 5x20 small size corridor. South of the westernmost square of Death Row is what is, for our purposes, a 5x15 corridor (the middle room is actually about eight-foot circular diameter, this being Dwarf Killer, but this system is built for multiples of five so I'm rounding down). West and east of the southernmost square are a pair of small-size tunnels that encircle Dwarf Killer (including going under the medium-size tunnel that leads into it), which is 5x35 all-told. North of the small tunnels that go beneath the entrance to Dwarf Killer is another small tunnel, 5x25. East of the northernmost square of that tunnel is another small size tunnel, 5x15, and if my calculations are correct that will link it up with the tiny-size exit to the Pit of Eternal Peril.

There is a medium-size 5-foot square just south of Dwarf Killer's southern exit (which should be, by far, the southernmost area of the dungeon by far). East of this is a 5x20 medium-size corridor, the Kobayashi Maru (which turned out to be not half so unbeatable as I'd expected, which is really what I was hoping for in the first place). It's worth noting that only the first 15 feet was trapped. South of the Maru is a single medium-size 5-foot square, and east of that is a medium-size 20x20 room, the Kobolds lair, which is still housing a bunch of crates you guys never looted, by the way.

"But wait, Maldeus!" I hear you say (I have very good hearing), "What about doors? What about traps? What about crafting? The thread title mentioned crafting." To which my response is "it is 7 AM. Go away."


Last edited by Maldeus on Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Rowanthepreacher



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:07 pm

Here's the map I made. It's colour coded, but there aren't many colours on there right now. Eventually black will signify stone walls, red will signify iron, the floors will be coloured according to whatever we need and all that stuff. I'm going to start working on a couple of costs now.

Just so you know, in order to make the map as accurate as possible, I gave the dwarf killer half of all of the tiles around it, which screwed up everything to the west and south of it (not on the map, just for me) Pain in the arse.



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Maldeus



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:20 am

The Kobayashi Maru and main lair go east from Dwarf Killer, not west, but otherwise that looks good. Of course, it ultimately makes pretty much no difference at all, so if you don't want to edit it, that's fine with me. What program did you use to build this? I tried to find one last night, but it was really late and I gave up pretty quick.
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Rowanthepreacher



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:27 am

Ah, shite. It was 3 am when I did all this. Let's just keep it the way it is, eh?

I used Numbers, it's just a spreadsheet.
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Maldeus



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:17 am

Okay. Important notes:

-The size category differences have been changed from 25% to 50%, this as a result of me musing on a medium creature (6 feet) compared to a large (12 feet) or a small (4 feet), and 50% is still being pretty generous. Also, the size difference is calculated according to the size category of the workers, not just from medium-size as the original text implies. So if you could get a bunch of Ogres to dig your dungeon for you, it'd go faster (though they couldn't dig anything small size or smaller).
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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:07 am

Pfft. I'm going to check what everyone in the party wants, so that I can begin calculating the costs. I expect that the magical lab will be the most expensive thing. How much does a library cost? I'd like to make one of the rooms into a grand library, where we can score books on all manner of things. Also, how much would various training facilities cost?
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Maldeus



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:17 am

An alchemist's lab costs 500 GP. A wizardly lab would have similar costs. As for libraries, a single book would be (based on similar art objects in the DMG) about 1d6x100 GP, varying depending on how useful that particular book is. A library itself would be mostly furniture, which I should probably figure out prices for, along with the books. Training dummies and targets there's absolutely no reference point for, I'll have to figure that out while I'm figuring out the doors and traps. Not to mention, figure out what these facilities would actually do.
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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:04 pm

I'm not so concerned about their function, merely that they exist, should it be needed.
Also, how much would it cost to set up a fully functional forge?
Would it cost more to hire dwarven artisans for the placement of tiles, since i know that they'll do a better job?
Is there a library in Senidi, and if so, how well defended is it at night, or watched during the day?
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Maldeus



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:29 pm

A few things I've noticed about crafting whilst revising the crafting rules:

-Objects with low craft DCs automatically take longer to create if they have the same value as high DC crafts. The ultimate time is based off of cost. It takes upwards of a year for an NPC expert to create a golden candlestick holder, since gold is malleable and has a low DC, but the end result has a high cost.
-Attempting to craft an object with no value requires dividing by zero. This either results in all people backed into a corner by lethally hostile enemies threatening to make an untrained Craft (Gravel) check, thus causing the world to implode as its physics attempt to do the impossible, or else to people digging out dungeons instantly as they make a series of infinitely small and guaranteed successful Craft (Gravel) checks which consume the stone they're digging into.
-In the world-imploding version, the fastest way to dig a dungeon according to existing rules is to have half-orc warriors power attack the stone with a great axe.

Also, there's a spell called Planar Binding which you can use to slap Efreet around for three wishes from the comfort of your own home. One of these wishes can be used to grant yourself any magic item 15,000 GP or less, including, for example, scrolls of planar binding. And in case you're wondering, the only reason I'm telling you this is because every NPC wizard eleventh level and up already knows it.

Continuing on with the rules (all of these will be copy/pasted into the original post as well):

Slaves

Regular laborers are already working at a subsistence wage for commoners living one bad day away from going completely hungry. Feeding slaves will cost you exactly the same and unless you own them yourself (and they are expensive enough in Sedini that expendable labor-slaves aren't sold at all), the owner will not be happy to find that they've died. Even if you do own them, they can only work for three days before they die of combined exhaustion and starvation. Since pay is weekly, that means you'll save approximately 5 cp for every slave you work to death. The slaves themselves are virtually guaranteed to be able to fetch more than this on the market, even in places where it is legal. Plus using unwilling labor means not only guarding the laborers from monsters, but stopping slaves from escaping, so every worker who is being coerced against their will to work on your project counts as two workers for purposes of determining how many guards you'll need (unless you can find a way to magically brainwash them). Did you think medieval era nobles who regularly had their enemies tortured to death shied away from slavery because of moral issues? In the feudal system, you already have serfs who're dependent on you for protection, so what practical purpose could putting chains on them and paying a guy to whip them serve?

The one time slaves could be useful is when you're using blacksmiths or artisans as slaves. Obviously, your guards and teamsters can't be slaves, and if your architect is a slave, he's going to do a terrible job of it and the end result will be (until more solid rules for cave-ins and collapses are determined) just as bad as if you had no architect at all. Blacksmiths and artisans are experts, not commoners, and they need a better diet to be able to do their job right. It costs a weekly 7 SP to feed an expert enough to be able to work, which is far below the 5 or 15 GP wages otherwise demanded by them. Expert-trained slaves do tend to be expensive on the markets, however. Buying a commoner costs 2 GP, buying an expert depends on what they can do: Artisans cost 100 GP, blacksmiths cost 300 GP, a servant will cost 15 GP, and a literate slave costs 60 GP. This is if it's legal. When illegal, the costs are quadruple. Also, all prices given are for the Videl Peninsula. Economies outside of Videl tend not to be wealthy enough to support the slave trade in the first place, so buying them would require a special order to Videl, the exact price of which would be on a case by case basis. Slavery is nominally illegal in Antigane, but in practice it's usually very easy to get away with and thus there's a decent market for slaves amongst the nobles there, at double normal prices for costs involved in transport.

Ankhegs

Ankhegs can dig out a five foot square of rock or dirt every round. They're rented out for 50 GP an hour in most any place of the proper climate to raise them in the first place.

Doors

If you're using hinges, doors require blacksmiths and artisans. If you're using a portcullis or other sliding door, they can be made with only artisans. A blacksmith can make hinges for 200 doors per month (a total of 400 hinges). Every 40 hinges (two hinges to each door) reduces the number of people he can repair tools for by one. Doors don't typically take a full day to make and install, which means your artisans' work day has to be broken up into individual hours of the day instead of full days.

An average artisan will work all sixteen hours he's awake (life in the middle ages was tough), but he can't eat and work at the same time, so fifteen hours is the actual time available. It's possible to push them to eighteen hours if you have some way of compelling them to work for you (or just convincing them to work at breakneck speeds). Pushing them to twenty hours will kill 5% of them every day after the first week, 22 hours will kill 50% of them every week, and 24 hours a day will kill all of them after the first three days. The rate of death is tripled if you are also not feeding the workers (and they'll all die after three days if the long hours haven't killed them by then). Obviously, convincing workers to work at potentially lethal rates is extremely difficult.

A laborer can chop down the wood for a door at a rate of five doors' worth per day.* A heavy wooden door is the equivalent of two doors. Iron doors cost 5 GP in iron, iron portcullis' cost 2 GP. A simple wooden door can be made and installed in just one hour. A good wooden door requires two hours, and a strong wooden door requires three (so, fifteen simple wooden doors per day per artisan, seven good wooden doors, and five strong wooden doors, if all of them are of the same variety). A stone door requires six hours (two per day), but has no material costs, since it's assumed you have enough stone on hand (if this doesn't make sense, the DM can require that you purchase materials). Iron doors require ten hours each (one per day). A wooden portcullis takes just one hour to install (fifteen per day) and an iron portcullis requires five hours (three per day). Putting a lock on a door requires an additional one hour per door.

*By the way, given this I've been able to calculate a rough cost for wood: a pile of wood (roughly the same amount it would take to make a door) costs 4 cp. 2 cp each to pay a worker 1 SP to harvest five of it, and the remaining 2 cp to make the seller a profit.

Traps

The DMG associates the cost of making a trap with its DC, even if you're making the trap yourself. This makes no sense. Of course, neither do the rest of the crafting rules, but I haven't revised those yet. So I'm implementing what is essentially a band-aid fix for now. Craft (trapmaking), like all other Craft skills, just doesn't work at all until I finish the rules for it (which should be by Thursday), and in the meantime, buying the parts for all mechanical traps is 1 GP if they don't come as pre-made trap parts (gears, pulleys, etc. etc.) (costs for buying the pre-madeparts also to-be-determined). Seriously, the amount of actual wood, rope, or metal in a trap is pretty small, whether the trap ultimately ends up shooting an arrow or dropping the ceiling on someone. If the trap requires ammunition, like darts, arrows, or spears, you need to pay for those separately.

The time to build a trap is one day per artisan times the CR of the trap. NPC artisans only know how to make the sample traps listed in the DMG. If the trap is magical, it requires a wage mage (10 GP/week) instead of an artisan and no materials. Remember that you'll need some way of getting out of your lair without walking straight through all of your own traps. All of this is subject to a huge amount of variability after I work out the crafting rules (except the bit about needing to get out of your lair without killing yourself, that'll be pretty consistent).

Other Features

Note: All dungeon features listed in this section require artisans unless otherwise specified.

Stairs require an additional day per square to create, on top of whatever time is already being taken to create the walls of the room. Spiral stairs require two days for each square, since the central support has to be constructed and the placement of individual stairs is a bit more complex.

Narrow bridges cost 2 CP a piece. They're literally just planks laid out across the gap, making them easy to construct (about a minute, tops, so effectively instant). They can cross a chasm up to ten feet long. A rope bridge costs 1 GP (the cost of the wood is a negligible 2-6 CP, so this just pays for the rope) and requires two hours per ten feet to construct, and can reach up to a hundred feet. A wooden bridge requires a days' worth of wood from a laborer for every five foot square, and a days' worth of labor from an artisan for every five foot square constructed. A rough stone bridge requires no time at all to construct if the chasm beneath it was of your own creation: Just leave the stone there while you're digging. This can be smoothed into a regular stone bridge at the same rate as if you were making stone walls. If you have to build it yourself, then building the bridge requires three days of artisan labor every five foot square, or one week if you want it to be superior or reinforced masonry. Building an iron bridge requires 200 lbs. of metal for every five foot square, which costs 20 GP. It also requires a full week of artisan labor for every five foot square. Adding a railing to a bridge costs an extra day of labor for every five foot square that has a railing attached.

A chute or chimney is really just a tunnel, usually tiny size or smaller to prevent easy infiltration from most opponents. They're noted here mostly because any blacksmith, kitchen, fireplace, or other place that requires and open flame will absolutely need some kind of ventilation, typically just a chimney leading to the surface located directly above the fire.

Furniture

First off, there's lighting, which isn't really furniture but it's close enough that I'm putting it in the same category. Typically when dungeon crawling I assume that anyone who needs it has a torch (they cost one copper), but that's pretty sparse lighting when you plan to live in a place. So every room should have a hooded lantern (7 GP) and, here's where thinks actually get a bit pricy, to keep the lanterns lit twelve hours a day, you're going to need two pints of oil (1 SP each), every day. Seven days a week is 14 SP, times, say, just five rooms and you're losing 7 GP per week on oil, which could be irksome. Of course, not every lantern needs to be lit for twelve hours a day. You could just have characters who need it carry a lantern around with them and hang it up on a nearby hook (setting up lantern hooks/torch holders is assumed to be part of the process of making walls) when they reach their destination room, in which case they just need two pints of oil every day for their lantern. If your dungeon ever becomes home to a large number of hirelings, servants, and etc. who don't have darkvision, it may be more efficient to just put a lantern in every room.

The rest of this furniture has totally made-up costs based on extrapolation from the wages paid in the Economicon and occasionally extrapolations based on extrapolations. If you want to have your own artisans make these things...Well, you can't, because then I'd have to figure out price of raw materials for everything metal, which is really tricky. For simplicity's sake, this is what we're going with. I just know a stiff breeze will happen along to knock this house of cards over eventually, but this is it for now:

Altar, wooden: 1 GP
Altar, stone: 4 GP
Anvil: 25 GP
Bed: 15 SP
Barrel: 5 SP*
Bench: 1 GP
Bookcase: 1 GP
Cage, small: 5 GP
Cage, medium: 8 GP
Cage, large: 10 GP
Chair: 1 GP
Chest: 2 GP
Cupboard: 8 SP
Desk: 15 SP
Forge: 20 GP
"Furniture": It's people. Soylent Green is made out of people! They're making our feed out of people. Next thing you know they'll be breeding us like cattle for food. You've got to tell them. You've gotta tell them!
Ladder: 2 SP
Mirror: 15 GP
Oven: 2 GP
Statue: 30 GP
Stool: 2 SP
Table, small (seats four): 1 GP
Table, large (seats twelve): 2 GP
Training dummy, martial arts: 1 GP
Training dummy, mechanical: 2 GP
Training dummy, stationary: 1 SP
Training target: 2 SP
Tub: 8 GP
Wardrobe: 15 SP
Weapon Rack: 12 SP
Weapon, wooden: 1 SP
Workbench: 1 GP

*Yes, some of these contradict the prices listed in the PHB. When a piece of furniture or adventuring equipment has two separate prices listed between my sourceposts and the PHB, my sourceposts trump for purposes of this campaign.

Finally, a few standardized sets of furniture for different kinds of rooms:

Bedroom (bed, chair, chest, desk, wardrobe): 95 SP
Mess hall (stoolx12, large table, oven): 64 SP
Library (bookcasex4, chairx2, deskx2): 9 GP
Common room (chairx12, small tablex2): 14 GP
Shooting Range (training targetx3): 6 SP
Training Room (stationary training dummyx5, mechanical training dummyx2, martial arts training dummyx2, wooden weaponx12): 77 SP

Of course, you'll need more than a single 5x5 space to hold any of these (except maybe the bedroom if you just cram it all in), so most of the cost will usually come from having the rooms constructed in the first place.
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Rowanthepreacher



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Sun May 01, 2011 8:41 pm





Here's the new version, as I intend it to be. Any questions, problems or anything? The large dotted lines are doors, in the colour of their material. Walls indicate their material, as well as the material within their boundaries. The small dotted line indicates a passage for water, but with wall blocking everything above.

The blue portion is a water channel, with a pump at the bottom to take the water back out to the river. It operates by harvesting the energy of water falling 40 feet with small waterwheels (vertically, not horizontally) and transmitting that energy to pumps on the other side, which take all of the forging and unsanitary waste, pump it up to the surface, and dump it in the river, which flows away.

Mal, if the entire workforce worked for one day, would we still need guards, blacksmiths, teamsters, etc? Do we have to pay to put them up for the night and feed them if we only keep them for a single day? How many artisans can the area provide, at full tilt? If we only kept them for a day, could we pay only the continuous costs, and not the setup costs?
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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Tue May 03, 2011 3:04 am

You wouldn't need blacksmiths, no (any project of less than a month doesn't need blacksmiths, because they'll be finished before the first batch of items expire anyway). Guards you will need, though (it's not like the monsters have a code of honor that forbids them from attacking anyone who's been in the wilderness less than 24 hours). It's a half-day trip to get out there, so unless they turn around immediately upon arrival, they won't have time to go home anyway, which means they are going to have to have a place to sleep for the night, and also stuff to eat, all of which needs to be delivered by teamsters. So, barring the blacksmiths, yeah, you'll need 'em.

By my rough calculations, there are about twenty blacksmiths and 160 artisans in the city total (out of a population of over 13,000...I'd expected them to be way more abundant, but apparently even counting masons and carpenters together there's only about one per 250 people, numbers based off of Paris 1292 and then arbitrarily doubled due to Sedini's relatively powerful economy). Of course, in order to find out how many are available, we need to know the unemployment rate for the middle ages and/or renaissance, which wasn't recorded at all so I seriously can't even begin to guess what they'd be like. In the modern era, it's rare to see them over 20% anywhere, but the medieval economy was unrecognizably different from ours so I'm going to arbitrarily declare that the average unemployment rate is 25%. So, forty artisans and about three blacksmiths are available to pack up and head out into the wilderness right now (laborers in a population center are going to be available in such stupidly massive numbers that it's really not even worth worrying about until you're trying to call up over a thousand).

Also, when I saw the completed map I realized that expecting an Ankheg to dig with enough precision as to leave all those one foot walls without any gaping holes in them is a bit of a stretch, but until I have rules for constructing new walls (so you can compare the price between having the Ankheg leave a five-foot square in between every space to be dug out later with laborers to having artisans put up new walls after the Ankheg digs out a single, vast chamber) I'm just going to go ahead and say that Ankheg's are absurdly precise INT 1 creatures.
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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Tue May 03, 2011 4:24 pm

Well, I was assuming that they came with Ankheg riders, and that they'd only carve out rough walls with waste rock everywhere, requiring the work of artisans to make anywhere near decent accommodations.

Thanks for the numbers and answers. I'm doing calculations on the best cost/speed ratio, and the cost of feeding and whatnot is a massive factor.

EDIT: Excellent. I'll need to chat with the group one last time to work out what they're happy with, but we can have the entire thing finished in a week, for about 1000GP.


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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Tue May 03, 2011 4:34 pm

Well, yes (though I'm thinking it'd be more Ankheg drivers than riders, given that where is the rider going to go when everything above and below the Ankheg is solid rock?), it's just that getting an Ankheg to dig out two separate rooms that are adjacent to one another without breaking through the wall in between them even once is rather a stretch. But since the rules are incomplete, it's a stretch we're totally going to make, for now at least.
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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Tue May 03, 2011 4:39 pm

Heh. Awesome. If there's any doubt, we simply have thicker walls and slightly smaller than 5ft squares.
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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Tue May 03, 2011 5:08 pm

By the way, what's your plan for ventilating the forge and kitchen?
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Rowanthepreacher



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Tue May 03, 2011 5:29 pm

The kitchen.... shit. I'll get back to you on that.

As for the forge, I intended to use the pump back up to the surface for that. The smoke will go up the same way as the water does, and out into the local stream. I'll need to move the forge over a little bit, but that's not an issue.
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Maldeus



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Tue May 03, 2011 5:30 pm

Keep in mind that the Ankheg is a large creature and can only dig medium or larger tunnels. But the forge should work fine, so long as you've got a pipe that directs the smoke straight from the forge and into the sewer, then up to the surface.
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Rowanthepreacher



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Thu May 19, 2011 8:15 am

Ok. I've finally finished the work on the kitchen/forge/toilet system. It was a challenge to fit everything in without extending the water way, but I managed to, and reduced a fair bit of unnecessary equipment in the process.





As before, the little lines represent an airway, mostly covered by stone (We'll need a worker to knock the little vent through after the ankheg digs a solid wall) and the larger dotted lines are doors.
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Maldeus



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Thu May 19, 2011 8:17 am

I'm sorry, Rowan, but I'm kicking you from the group for using a Mac.
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Rowanthepreacher



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Thu May 19, 2011 2:53 pm

"Thus ends the tale of Rowan, who was brought low by the jealousy of smaller, pettier and less virile men. May we remember him as a bastion of amateur cartography for his masterful renditions of the kobold lair, for like Van Gogh before him, his genius was not realised until his untimely departure from the group."
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Rowanthepreacher



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:25 am

Cost breakdown for the location:

Architect 1 per 50 workers = 6 startup, 10/week
2 workers cuts 10 doors/2tile = 12 startup 0.2/week
2 teamsters = 12 startup, 2/week
11 Soldiers = 66 startup, 16.5/week
Blacksmith = 6 startup, 30/week
Ankheg = 50 total cost

258 artisan days
37 artisans = 7 days 222 startup, 185 progressive, 407 total

total labour costs = 617.7 total labour costs.

furnishing costs
iron room = 90
iron door = 5
5 rooms = 47.5
Altar =4
Medium table 1.5
oven 2
4 racks 4.8
10 wooden weapons 1
2 chests 4
2 cupboards 1.6
2 mech dummies 4
1 M Arts dummy 1
Tub 8
2 workbenches 2
7 chairs 7
2 targets 0.4
anvil/forge 45
5 cages 40
10 bookcases 10

Total furnishing costs = 278.8

Total cost = 886.5

I did it in under 1000 gp! It's not fully furnished, since it's missing a proper lab, but it's pretty good. Later expansions should be easy to put in, and i'm planning an aboveground extension.
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Maldeus



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PostSubject: Re: Crafting, Dungeons, and etc.   Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:27 pm

Hey guys! Remember how I said crafting was going to be finished on Thursday? Well instead I'm finishing it today, five whole days early. I'm awesome like that.

First off, crafting is being divided up into four skills that adventurers take and the rest are all covered under Profession rules because they don't make anything useful. The skills are Craft(Alchemy), Craft(Bowmaking), Craft(Weaponsmithing), and Craft(Armorsmithing). Now in Tome there are skill-based feats (one in the main Tomes, a bunch of others in the appendix), but since Craft doesn't do anything on its own, I'm treating these Craft skills as though you automatically gained a corresponding feat with them for free. Like other skill-based feats, these give you a new, shiny ability every four ranks (ish), but unlike other skill-based feats, they also give you a shiny at rank 1. As opposed to rank 0. You do not get free crafting abilities if you don't have skills.

Crafting something typically takes a week. Usually the whole week, unless they're small items. This is up to DM fiat for now. Regardless, the cost of materials is one third the price of the finished product. No rolls are associated with it, you either can or cannot.

Note on masterwork items: These items require you to first take a week to prepare a masterwork ingredient before making the item itself. Thus, you need two weeks to make a masterwork item.

Alchemy
1: Acid, alchemist's fire, smokestick, tindertwig
4: Antitoxin, sunrod, tanglefoot bag, thunderstone
9: ?
14: ?
19: ?

Armorsmithing
1: Light armor, shields (except tower shields)
4: Medium/heavy armor, tower shields, masterwork
9: Mithril armor, Darkleaf, Spiderweb, Adamantine, Silksteel Armor, Stoneplate, Lobster Mail, Bone Armor, Crystal Shield, Ice Aegis, Kappa Shell
14: Dragonscale, Elukian Clay, Coral Armor, Mechanus Armor
19: Sun Armor, Demon Armor

Weaponsmithing
1: Simple weapons
4: Martial/exotic weapons, masterwork
9: Magic/Bane weapons
14: Axiomatic, Anarchic, Holy, Unholy weapons
19: Vorpal weapons

Bowmaking
1: Longbow or shortbow, arrows
4: Composite bow, masterworks
9: Magic/Bane bow/arrow
14: Axiomatic, Anarchic, Holy, Unholy weapons
19: Brilliant Energy
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